Guest Blog: Are Manchester United Fans Getting Carried Away Too Soon?
With Manchester United off to a flying start this season and scoring hatfuls along the way, I’ve decided that Manchester United fans are getting too carried away too soon. This might be because I’m slightly bitter because they signed Villa’s best player in the summer, but it might just be that fans of United (and City for that matter) should err on the side of caution when claiming the title is theirs so soon. They only need to look at Chelsea last season when Chelsea were 5 points clear of their rivals in October and off to a flyer. It’s a long season! I asked Man Utd fan Sam (@Cranno7) for his thoughts on the matter.
The new United: Are we all getting carried away too soon?
Four games in and much of the early hype has been about the new-look Manchester United and how they swept aside Arsenal at Old Trafford two weeks ago and Bolton at the Reebok yesterday. There is no doubt that Sir Alex Ferguson’s young team are looking the part at this stage but it is a long season and I’m not sure United have their 20th title in the bag just yet.
What Sir Alex appears to have got right is getting his squad together early. The team that have started the Premier League campaign this season enjoyed a full tour of the United States together in the pre-season. In the US, the likes of Young, Cleverly and Welbeck were able to learn the Manchester United philosophy of attacking, whilst Smalling and Jones got themselves accustomed to the United backline. The one weak link so far appears to be the Spaniard between the posts who has the potential to be the next Massimo Taibi (remember that calamity against Southampton!?). The jury is certainly still out on him. But the US tour meant that when United began their competitive season against Manchester City at Wembley they looked far more composed, comfortable and unified than their city rivals and this was encapsulated with Nani’s first goal after a great team move.
Sir Alex had his full squad whilst the other big teams were sweating over transfer deals on deadline day (Sneijder never looked likely from the outset). And four early wins, including an 8-2 demolition of Arsenal, sees the pundits and journalists already engraving Manchester United on the Premiership trophy. But… after a shaky opening game at the Reebok, Manchester City have four wins from four and a strike-force of Dzeko, Aguero and Silva who are all enjoying their football at City and scoring goals in the process. Questions will continue to be asked about Mancini and whether he has the ability to keep his very large and very talented squad happy. You feel that if the City boss can solve his selection dilemma and keep his team content then he might just be able to take the Premier League trophy to Eastlands.
Away from Manchester the other top contenders are looking far from threatening. Liverpool, who were tipped by many to be a real title challenger this season, have failed to impress thus far and suffered their first defeat yesterday to Stoke. Kenny Dalglish has spent a huge amount of money since January on players that would probably not make the first XI if they found themselves at City or United. After four games they are already five points behind the leaders and will need to do a lot more to impress. Tottenham have had a dreadful start to their season including a 5-1 thrashing at home to City and Harry Redknapp’s team seem to be a long way from the team that beat AC Milan in the San Siro in February. Redknapp will hope that the signings of Parker and Adebayor will make the difference at White Hart Lane and they were pivotal in their win away at Wolves yesterday. As for Arsenal… we shall see! Chelsea, though, look the only other credible threat to United apart from City.
As it stands it looks like a three horse race but it is only the beginning of September and there are a lot of games to play. One of the major factors marking United and City apart from their rivals at this stage is the number of goals they are scoring at home and away – both have goal differences in double figures already with Chelsea leading the rest of the pack with just four.
The question of this blog was whether we’re all getting carried away with this new Manchester United team. In reality the answer is yes – much can happen between now and May but with Wayne Rooney and his new hair getting back-to-back hat-tricks it is extremely difficult not to get carried away. City are posting big scores but the message from United every weekend seems to be ‘anything you can do we can do better’.
For me, the most important dates to remember this season are 23 October (United v City at Old Trafford) and 28 April (City v United at Eastlands). This is where the title could be won or lost because both teams look unbeatable right now.
You can read more from Sam Cranston on his great Blog, but for now, why not let us know your thoughts below!!
Posted on September 11, 2011, in Guest Blog, Manchester United and tagged Blog, Football, Manchester City, Manchester United, Premier League. Bookmark the permalink. 11 Comments.
footballwatercooler 
Its far too early to make any assumptions. As you pointed out, Chelsea were winning easily, and United struggling at the start of the season, but also Blackpool were doing well. Newcastle famously lost a massive lead a few years ago. Papers have to write about something, and this is just like when they say England are in with a good chance to win the world cup after one win. It probably depends a lot on January. City look good now but I wonder if they rely too much on Aguero and Silva. Not sure they are anything special behind the forwards. I think Man Utd will win it, but I think it is too early to say things like 2 horse race/ this is the top 4 etc. I think Chelsea still have something to say, and I think Liverpool will have a lot more trouble getting top 4 than people think (spending lots of money only works if they are good players). I am obviously hoping Arsenal get some self belief, and I would back them for fourth, as long as they avoid injury and suspension crises like the one before the Man Utd game.
> Are Manchester United Fans Getting Carried Away Too Soon?
Aside from “getting carried away too soon” (what does that mean? Getting carried away is a bad thing whenever it happens…), I can’t think of a single United fan who is counting their chickens just yet.
> With Manchester United off to a flying start this season and scoring hatfuls along the way, I’ve decided that Manchester United fans are getting too carried away too soon.
You’ve answered your own question quite quickly. But there’s no evidence to suggest that Man United fans are getting “carried away”.
> …but it might just be that fans of United (and City for that matter) should err on the side of caution when claiming the title is theirs so soon.
Again I don’t see any United, or indeed Citeh, fans claiming a title. You’ve been watching Match Of The Day’s hyperbolic coverage of the alleged ‘two horse race’ which has developed after four games.
> Are we all getting carried away too soon?
Stop saying that.
> Four games in and much of the early hype has been about the new-look Manchester United and how they swept aside Arsenal at Old Trafford two weeks ago and Bolton at the Reebok yesterday.
Hype coming from the press.
> There is no doubt that Sir Alex Ferguson’s young team are looking the part at this stage but it is a long season and I’m not sure United have their 20th title in the bag just yet.
NOBODY IS CLAIMING THAT THEY DO. Some parts of the press are saying that there could be a two horse race if United and City keep up this sort of form. That is not unreasonable.
> What Sir Alex appears to have got right is getting his squad together early. The team that have started the Premier League campaign this season enjoyed a full tour of the United States together in the pre-season.
The more important factor for United is that they’re playing in a totally different style to the past couple of seasons. Previously they played with Valencia and Nani tight to the byline and a fairly defensive central midfield partnership of Carrick and Fletcher, with Berbatov slowing the play down constantly and dropping deep. Now they’ve got Anderson and Cleverley (note spelling) in a more dynamic central midfield which plays much higher up the pitch. It’s very hard to play against that sort of formation.
> In the US, the likes of Young, Cleverly and Wellbeck were able to learn the Manchester United philosophy of attacking,
Welbeck and Cleverley have been at United for a long time and made plenty of appearances in the first team. They don’t need to learn the philosophy.
> whilst Smalling and Jones got themselves accustomed to the United back line.
Smalling made 23 appearances for United’s first team last season. I don’t think there’s a lot for him to get accustomed to.
> The one weak link so far appears to be the Spaniard between the posts who has the potential to be the next Massimo Taibi (remember that calamity against Southampton!?). The jury is certainly still out on him.
The next Massimo Taibi is a pretty lazy comparison. He’s young. He’s made a couple of mistakes, probably because his concentration isn’t that good when he’s out of the game for long periods of time. He’s made more successful saves in the league than any other goalkeeper this season, and looked very good against Arsenal (Theo’s goal aside) and Bolton.
Taibi was 29 when he came to United, and had been in the first team for a few Serie A clubs (including Milan). De Gea has a couple of seasons as Athletico Madrid’s first choice goalkeeper under his belt. If you watched him play in La Liga you’ll know he’s a prodigious talent. I’d argue that to suggest he has the potential to be a new Taibi after just four games is pretty close to “getting carried away too soon”…
> But the US tour meant that when United began their competitive season against Manchester City at Wembley they looked far more composed, comfortable and unified than their city rivals and this was encapsulated with Nani’s first goal after a great team move.
The difference is that United only signed three players in the summer (of whom only two are first team regulars) and City signed five first choice players.
> Sir Alex had his full squad whilst the other big teams were sweating over transfer deals on deadline day (Sneijder never looked likely from the outset).
Talks took place over Sneijder. Quite rare for United to go in for someone, agree a fee and then not make the deal.
> And four early wins, including an 8-2 demolition of Arsenal, sees the pundits and journalists already engraving Manchester United on the Premiership trophy.
I thought it was the Man Utd fans getting carried away?
> But… after a shaky opening game at the Reebok, Manchester City have four wins from four and a strike-force of Dzeko, Aguero and Silva who are all enjoying their football at City and scoring goals in the process. Questions will continue to be asked about Mancini and whether he has the ability to keep his very large and very talented squad happy. You feel that if the City boss can solve his selection dilemma and keep his team content then he might just be able to take the Premier League trophy to Eastlands.
City will do better than they did last season. No doubt. They look very good.
George, thanks for your comments and for taking the time to read the blog.
I’m not going to come back on each point as that’s for the writer of the article to do, if he wishes.
All I’d say is that you criticise us for making the comment that people are getting carried away, but then make sweeping statements yourself “NOBODY IS CLAIMING THAT THEY DO” – caps too. have you spoken to every Manchester United fan going? have you been in on some of the conversations that I have? been in the pub over hearing conversations that I’ve been involved in? overheard the same United fans on a train that I did the other day? If so, pop over and say hi next time!
> All I’d say is that you criticise us for making the comment that people are getting carried away,
My broader criticism was that it’s desperately unclear from the article whether that’s the actual claim of the author. He seems to be confused as to whether he thinks the press are carried away, or whether it’s United fans.
Cf. “And four early wins, including an 8-2 demolition of Arsenal, sees the pundits and journalists already engraving Manchester United on the Premiership trophy.”
(Incidentally I haven’t seen any pundits or journalists saying anything of the sort. If you’re asked who you think will win the league at this point then of course you’re going to pick a team who have four wins out of four and a record number of goals scored.)
It’d be useful to see some substantiation of the claim that Manchester United & City fans are getting carried away “too soon”. Maybe I just socialise with more rational people than the average football blogger, but I don’t see that happening at all. Early favourites? Yes. But only because you have to have early favourites.
I’d point out that nobody knows who will win the league, and that anyone saying that they are certain of a United victory is lying, but that’s a point as awe-inspiringly lazy as “I’m not sure United have a 20th title in the bag just yet.”
> but then make sweeping statements yourself “NOBODY IS CLAIMING THAT THEY DO” – caps too.
Correct. In response to what the author said, which was:
> I’m not sure United have their 20th title in the bag just yet.
Nobody, whether in the press or privately, is claiming that Manchester United have already won the league. It’s a statement of such staggering triteness that I had to re-read it. Of course you’re not sure that United have their 20th title in the bag just yet: we’ve played four fucking games of the season. It’s not a point that needed to be made.
> have you spoken to every Manchester United fan going?
A rather asinine point (along the lines of no non-musician can be a music critic). Of course, no. But have you genuinely heard that? They may say that they believe United will win the league, or that if present form continues they will win the league. They could reasonably argue that from this position it’s United’s to lose. But “in the bag”? Really? As in, it’s just a formality? With 34 games remaining? If you have heard people saying that then just ignore them. They represent a tiny minority of supporters, and the more burning issue I and many people have with coverage so far this season is that it’s already been turned into a two-horse race by the PRESS, not by fans.
> have you been in on some of the conversations that I have? been in the pub over hearing conversations that I’ve been involved in? overheard the same United fans on a train that I did the other day? If so, pop over and say hi next time!
What a tortured defence of a poor premise for an article. It would have been better to write an article arguing that there’s been unjust hype around the Manchester clubs in the press. That’s at least substantiable. Even if you have heard Manchester United fans who believe that they’ve somehow already won the league (which I don’t believe for a second), it’s not worth commenting on since they’re clearly stupid enough to have their perceptions shaped by the press, who *are* being hyperbolic and reactionary about the Manchester clubs so far this season.
George, thank you for taking the time to scrutinise my ‘opinion’ piece so thoroughly – I’m delighted that you have gone to such lengths and welcome your observations.
As for your broader criticism about the article being unclear – the title of the blog referenced ‘Manchester United’ fans and with a subtitle asking if we’re ‘all’ getting carried away (sorry I said it again!). For this reason, I felt (remember this is an opinion piece) that this gave me the freedom to discuss United fans AND the press.
As George W has already mentioned, the blog was written on the back of many of the conversations that we have been having and have heard in the past couple of weeks. To say that these people are ‘stupid’ because they do not share the same opinion as you is rather arrogant. It seems to me that you would prefer there to be no discussion about football of any kind until the final whistle has blown on the last day of the season in May. Is it not the job of the press and the pundits to by ‘hyperbolic and reactionary’ and provoke discussions and debates? I gather you must not read the newspapers and watch MoTD on mute?
With regard to your sweeping statements comment, you don’t like the use of my ‘not sure [it’s] in the bag’ comment but you would accept an argument that after four games it is ‘United’s to lose’? That seems slightly contradictory.
You criticise the piece for having unsubstantiated points yet your argument against the reference to De Gea is that ‘his concentration isn’t that good when he’s out of the game for long periods of time’. I take it then, that you have spoken to De Gea and the Goal Keeping coach and this is what they have told you?
The piece was written on the basis of only four games being played so far. At this time the one weak link looks to be the goalkeeper (again, please not this is my opinion). I did not see him play in Spain but I have seen his record – but it is a different game in Spain. When Tottenham signed Gomes he came off the back of several very successful seasons in Holland with PSV. He was another who struggled to adjust to the Premier League and made a number of high-profile mistakes. The point I made was that De Gea, at this time (and I appreciate we are just four (note the need not to swear!) games in), has the ‘potential’ to be the next keeper to fall into this category. I never said he would.
Unfortunately, I cannot come back to you on every point that you have made but once again I thank you for taking the time to post two detailed responses to the this blog. Maybe you could speak to the editors of Football Water Cooler and you could write a blog too?
George, despite your comments being welcome, I think they are incredibly short sited. Football fans are, and have been for years, influenced in the extreme by the press. It’s a fact of life.
You claim to not believe “something for a second” – sorry but these are conversations I’ve heard, I don’t lie and I certainly wouldn’t ask for a blog to be written for no reason. Your comment in return to something you say is a “tortured defence” is to say you “don’t believe it” and then tell me how to react “not worth commenting on” – well you’ve written two very long responses to this blog, so it’s clearly something we thought, and rightly so, that needed addressing.
Your opinion is of course welcome, but remember it is only that and it’s not always right.
> As for your broader criticism about the article being unclear – the title of the blog referenced ‘Manchester United’ fans and with a subtitle asking if we’re ‘all’ getting carried away (sorry I said it again!).
Getting carried away = fine.
Getting carried away too soon doesn’t make sense.
Getting carried away is a bad thing. You’re implying that it’s a good thing if it happens at a certain point. If it’s a good thing then it isn’t getting carried away.
> As George W has already mentioned, the blog was written on the back of many of the conversations that we have been having and have heard in the past couple of weeks. To say that these people are ‘stupid’ because they do not share the same opinion as you is rather arrogant.
It would have been better for you to cite these conversations. What you said:
> With Manchester United off to a flying start this season and scoring hatfuls along the way, I’ve decided that Manchester United fans are getting too carried away too soon.
It would have been better to say:
> With Manchester United off to a flying start this season and scoring hatfuls along the way, their fans seem to be [privately, and not in the comments section of the Guardian’s match report for the 5-0 win over Bolton, for example] expressing the opinion that the title is all but won.
> It seems to me that you would prefer there to be no discussion about football of any kind until the final whistle has blown on the last day of the season in May.
Straw man. Disregard.
> Is it not the job of the press and the pundits to by ‘hyperbolic and reactionary’ and provoke discussions and debates?
Not unless you misunderstand what hyperbolic and reactionary mean. It’s their job to provide reasoned, constructive analysis of players, teams and managers to cut through the avalanche of ill-informed pub talk which you seem to be claiming merits long-form response here.
> I gather you must not read the newspapers and watch MoTD on mute?
Again, this is a straw man. I read the press. Some of it’s worthwhile, and some of it isn’t.
> With regard to your sweeping statements comment, you don’t like the use of my ‘not sure [it’s] in the bag’ comment but you would accept an argument that after four games it is ‘United’s to lose’? That seems slightly contradictory.
Perhaps you don’t understand the distinction between the two.
In the bag implies that the title is all but won. Nothing will change over the course of the season. It will be a slug fest between United and City.
United’s to lose isn’t something I necessarily subscribe to, but they’re in the lead, so it’s a fair comment: other sides, including City, have to rely on their form dipping in order to usurp them.
> You criticise the piece for having unsubstantiated points yet your argument against the reference to De Gea is that ‘his concentration isn’t that good when he’s out of the game for long periods of time’.
Actually, what I said was:
> The next Massimo Taibi is a pretty lazy comparison. He’s young. He’s made a couple of mistakes, probably because his concentration isn’t that good when he’s out of the game for long periods of time. He’s made more successful saves in the league than any other goalkeeper this season, and looked very good against Arsenal (Theo’s goal aside) and Bolton.
> Taibi was 29 when he came to United, and had been in the first team for a few Serie A clubs (including Milan). De Gea has a couple of seasons as Athletico Madrid’s first choice goalkeeper under his belt. If you watched him play in La Liga you’ll know he’s a prodigious talent. I’d argue that to suggest he has the potential to be a new Taibi after just four games is pretty close to “getting carried away too soon”…
You’ll note that I didn’t reject criticism of De Gea. I simply stated that it was lazy to compare him to Taibi when their situations are markedly different.
> I take it then, that you have spoken to De Gea and the Goal Keeping coach and this is what they have told you?
I didn’t argue that you should substantiate your opinions. I suggested that you should substantiate your belief that Manchester United fans are somehow celebrating a title which hasn’t yet been won. You’re mixing the two to make a point. One is clearly impossible, the other is an oversight on your part.
> The piece was written on the basis of only four games being played so far. At this time the one weak link looks to be the goalkeeper (again, please not this is my opinion).
I don’t disagree. This is an epic reading comprehension fail on your part.
> I did not see him play in Spain but I have seen his record – but it is a different game in Spain. When Tottenham signed Gomes he came off the back of several very successful seasons in Holland with PSV. He was another who struggled to adjust to the Premier League and made a number of high-profile mistakes.
Again there’s a vast difference between Gomes, who has consistently made high profile mistakes during his several-year career in the English top flight, and David De Gea, who has so far made three mistakes in his four-game career in the English top flight.
>The point I made was that De Gea, at this time (and I appreciate we are just four (note the need not to swear!) games in), has the ‘potential’ to be the next keeper to fall into this category. I never said he would.
Actually the ‘point’ you made was:
> the Spaniard between the posts who has the potential to be the next Massimo Taibi
> Unfortunately, I cannot come back to you on every point that you have made
It would have been fun to hear your explanation for why Chris Smalling is getting accustomed to the United back line in his second season at the club with 23 appearances under his belt last term.
> but once again I thank you for taking the time to post two detailed responses to the this blog. Maybe you could speak to the editors of Football Water Cooler and you could write a blog too?
I’m one of those rarities: a football fan who recognises that he doesn’t have anything terribly interesting to say.
> George, despite your comments being welcome, I think they are incredibly short sited. Football fans are, and have been for years, influenced in the extreme by the press. It’s a fact of life.
I don’t disagree. In fact I said exactly that:
> They represent a tiny minority of supporters, and the more burning issue I and many people have with coverage so far this season is that it’s already been turned into a two-horse race by the PRESS, not by fans.
> You claim to not believe “something for a second” – sorry but these are conversations I’ve heard, I don’t lie and I certainly wouldn’t ask for a blog to be written for no reason.
Nobody is actually saying what they’ve heard, which is why there’s ambiguity here. The article veers between claiming that some Manchester United fans (one could argue that it implies the majority of United fans) believe that the title has, somehow, already been won.
You seem to suggest that you’ve heard United fans saying that it’s a foregone conclusion.
I’m sure you’ve heard football fans in the pub saying things like:
> United will win the league. Definitely.
> City will do it this year. [Rationalisation]
> It’s United and City’s to lose.
This doesn’t constitute a widely-held belief by rational football fans that the league is a foregone conclusion. Nor does it actually imply that the fans in question are “getting carried away”. People like making predictions. If I had to choose someone at the start of the season I’d have said United or Chelsea, with no games having been played. That doesn’t mean I believe that they have the league in the bag.
I still think Chelsea will push United closer than City. That doesn’t mean I believe that either has the league in the bag.
What worries me about this type of article, based on your assertion that you’ve heard these conversations in the pub, is that you’re drawing a generalisation from pockets of conversation involving potentially inebriated individuals, and you’re not divining that there may be a distinction between someone saying “[team] will definitely win the league this year” and them actually, truly, believing 100% that statement.
> Your comment in return to something you say is a “tortured defence” is to say you “don’t believe it”
I said that your defence of the post on the basis of conversations you’ve had in the pub and on trains was tortured. I don’t believe that you’ve spoken to any football fans who have no doubt that Manchester United or City will win the league this season.
> and then tell me how to react “not worth commenting on”
I’m sorry, but do you really think that armchair pundits in the pub who believe a team is going to win the league after four games are worth commenting on? Seriously?
> well you’ve written two very long responses to this blog, so it’s clearly something we thought, and rightly so, that needed addressing.
It really doesn’t take very long to dismiss these sort of tawdry arguments. And I don’t think you should confuse my admonishment of a poorly conceived, entirely reactionary essay (which could be summed up by saying “We’ve only played four games”) with you happening upon a prescient and vital topic for discussion. My point, lest you missed it, is that this essay makes a point which did not need to be made.
> Your opinion is of course welcome, but remember it is only that and it’s not always right.
Sterling advice. Maybe if I say something dull on a train you’ll draw a generalisation and commission a blog post about it 🙂
George, thanks again for all your comments today and the time you’ve spent responding.
Perhaps if you feel this topic, those that have taken their time writing the post and responses to you, is such a waste of time, your last comment should be exactly that.
Dear George (the annoying one),
I think you have completely misunderstood the point of this blog, it is not to cite ‘The Guardian’ and write an oxford standard essay, boasting quotations and facts articulately referenced and other such pompous actions, on which your critique seems to be based.
This blog is in fact for fans to get together and discuss topical news or sometimes just their own opinion. It has no defined style or reader, it is free to be whatever it wants to be and sometimes you may not agree with it, but that’s not the point.
The point is free expression and topical debate, not malicious criticism and the incessant enforcement of ones opinion. Your arrogant, egotistical and very ignorant views have entirely soured the tone of not just this blog, but the whole site, of which you should be appalled as the editors have worked hard in bringing interesting articles to those who enjoy reading it.
I may be generalising, but I’m pretty sure most who have actually found the time to read your incredibly looooong, repetitive and pretty pointless posts, will say that your kind of comments are unwanted and add nothing to this blog.
I sincerely hope you bog off soon,
Yours faithfully,
Georgina.
Football fan. Blog Enthusiast.
Seems this blog was very timely. Just seen this on the BBC website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/mobile/football/14907537.stm